Thinking about getting another e-dirt bike: Which One? | Page 5

Concerning MX bikes: What must happen first in my opinion, are rules for E-MX competition bikes from the Motorsportauthorities. There must be rules, which say something about enginepower (min-max), battery energy (min-max), which is obilgatory, to be allowed to compete in different classes, to be built. As long as we have no rules, no manufacturer, like the 4 japanese or KTM, will build E_MX bikes. When this rules are given, manufacturers and the privat people can build their products and compete. Without rules, the competition will never begin!

From a mass production standpoint for the major OEMs, I will agree with you on your point.

For conversions, however, I disagree. Standards are good to have for many reasons (mostly for safety), but for the moment and for conversions, I don't see why it would be necessary. If it's strictly regarding competition then the answer is simple for the moment: E-Open classes based off age and/or skill level. The power output is up to the bike and rider. Open classes already exist for ICEs, so I don't see why it would be different for E motos.

Most people who ride dirt bikes don't race anyway, so from a sales standpoint, competition standards only affect most consumers indirectly. I had seen the Pohlbock before also. It is a beautiful piece. They do great work. But like @bayodome says, we need a kit that equals the Alta in performace and endurance that goes onto a proven bike and suspension.
You are right also @wwmotors, we need a definition of how we can race these. But you can see that the Alta can and does equal a Pro level 250F bikes in watching the RedBull Straight Rhythm. So if we don't have a set of rules yet, the Alta performace will be the benchmark.
If there was a race today, which I think could be sooner than later, Alta would the standard you would have to equal or better. What comes first, two or more people chasing each other around a track on there home grown electrics, or waiting to get rules. Alta nor Tesla waited for a set of rule, but just built a awesome unit. I heard that KTM did try to buy Alta but Harley squashed it, but I never saw this officially. I believe a well executed e-dirt bike along the lines of the Alta MXR, but in a lighter package, with a quick change battery, 110/240V quick charger, priced similar or cheaper then a new Alta, will sell like hot cakes regardless of whether there are formal race classes to support it. Once enough of them were out there, the race classes will follow, likely at the amatuer level first, then moving up the ranks as the bikes and concept prove out, and people get used to seeing them.

I also believe a complete bike from a major like KTM, Honda, Yamaha, would sell much better then kits, but I welcome all forms of e-dirt bikes and can see both options selling well.

Remember that the KTM 350 did not have its own class when it was introduced and many people questioned KTM's decision to bring it to market. Its now one of KTM's best selling dirt bikes and is widely regarded as one of the best all around dirt bike out there.

KTM has a long history of taking risks by selling dirt bikes in unusual displacements (150, 200, 510, etc), plus they have their SX-E 5 electric mini, and of course their 7/8's sized Freeride E-XC, so I'm hoping, and praying (is that wrong? Lol) that KTM will introduce a full sized e-dirt bike soon and we can all ride off into the sunset happy as e-clams.

That looks really interesting! Do you happen to know price range for these kits, and where he is located? I did not see it on that page or site. I sent them a message last night though, on Christmass Eve... lol This might be a good option for bigger guys, and people that do not want a smaller dirt bike!?! Depending on how easy it is to do the conversion, and how good someone is a wrenching on dirt bikes. I am not very good at it really! lol

Makiman,
Yes I know the guy at XtremelectricMX quiie well. His name is Mark, and he lives in Florida. I am in Lake havasu City AZ. He has one for sale right now on Ebay. The same model that I have. I have it running , but with a temporary battery ( only 200A) Here is a youtube of it running .
He has a kit for sale on EBay YAMAHA - YZ250F/450F ELECTRIC MOTOR | eBay
Here are some pictures of our XEMX YZ bike without the battery and then pictures of the battery box. The battery can be made for quick change. Talk to Mark about that.
I can build a battery with 240 Molicel cells. That will give you 72V(84V peak) 540A in that aluminum box, that can be quick changed.
Don







I emailed them... So, the $4,500 includes everything? Does it include a good long lasting battery, does say it includes a battery? Perhaps the battery that comes with the kit, is not so good? Did not see info. on the battery supplied with the kit... I should look at the E Bay thing again, i guess. I need to know specs on the motor/controller.... for the conversion kit too. H.P., top speed (approximately i weigh about 190 lbs., little over average perhaps, lol).... torque....

You can build a battery for the conversion? Can u build replacement batteries for Alta's, by chance? Know of nice looking Alta for sale, but has code 36 showing... Don't know who i could get to fix it, at the moment... Might be less expensive to do a conversion... on a YZ... and end up lighter than an Alta!?! That would be cool, if as fast or almost as fast an an Alta, and reliable too!

Getting back to the conversion kit, I see it says, "only minor mods. need to be done to frame", that part is kinda worrisome to me! lol Not to mention I am not the best mechanic in the world anyway! lol

Thanks for the info Don!!! Very interesting! Robert

I emailed them... So, the $4,500 includes everything? Does it include a good long lasting battery, does say it includes a battery? Perhaps the battery that comes with the kit, is not so good? Did not see info. on the battery supplied with the kit... I should look at the E Bay thing again, i guess. I need to know specs on the motor/controller.... for the conversion kit too. H.P., top speed (approximately i weigh about 190 lbs., little over average perhaps, lol).... torque....

You can build a battery for the conversion? Can u build replacement batteries for Alta's, by chance? Know of nice looking Alta for sale, but has code 36 showing... Don't know who i could get to fix it, at the moment... Might be less expensive to do a conversion... on a YZ... and end up lighter than an Alta!?! That would be cool, if as fast or almost as fast an an Alta, and reliable too!

Getting back to the conversion kit, I see it says, "only minor mods. need to be done to frame", that part is kinda worrisome to me! lol Not to mention I am not the best mechanic in the world anyway! lol

Thanks for the info Don!!! Very interesting! Robert

Robert,
I can say right off it takes quite the mechanic, fabricator, crafter to build an Electric bike or vehicle from scratch. Not to try to discourage you there is a lot involved.
I have built from scratch, and it takes a lot of time and expense to build that way. What Mark has done, has brought that work down to a minimum. The mods to the frame can be done easily, grinding off a few brackets, bolt his motor in, and put the chain on it. That was at least 6 months of work to get to that point on my built from scratch bike, and expensive. His product is built for this purpose and is beautiful from a machinist's view. There is more to do next, and that takes some electrical experience. He can supply controllers, wiring harness, battery cases, flip up seat bracketing, configured to the motor and power you want.
But the battery is the most complex and important part of the performance. Unfortunately that is why they are expensive too.
You need the right battery models to get the momentary power you need the right quantity of cells, and size for the weight and size that you need.
Talk to Mark and he can clue you into the prices of the parts, but don't be shocked at over $ to build a good battery, and more if you want the capacity of the the Alta.
Also talk to Mark at XEMX about fixing the Alta batteries. He has experience in that too.
Hope this info helps.
Don
If you are not a builder, the Alta with a bad battery (code 36) is a better option for some. They can be fixed.

Hi Members. Am new to the forum and am looking to buy my first ebike. I'm not a bicycle novice by any means but am new to the ebike scene.
I have a couple of questions/thoughts and am wondering how you folks feel or what you have experienced.
1) When it comes to the budget (no-name) China ebikes ($1,000 to $3,000) at the warehouses here where I live, why are 90% of them all fat-tire bikes?
Brands like Troxus, Mokwheel, Magicycle, Magnum, etc. I don't see the need for fat-tire unless you are riding on sand at the beach or on snow-covered trails/roads. One of the sales people actually told me they are fat-tire to handle the weight of the bike. I can't buy a bike from a shop where I'm told that. That is ridiculous.
2) Are people (businesses) just ordering from China and white-labeling them here in the states?
I have explored numerous brands and have found that 90% of them are all the same with a couple of tweaks here and there. Colors and component options. The frames look exactly the same for the most part.
3) Are the budget bikes worth it or am I going to regret buying one down the road?
They all seem to have the rock-bottom level components like Shimano Tourney or Altus transmissions and either cheap mechanical or very entry-level hydraulic brakes (Tektro or white-labeled ones from China)Some have white-labeled motors or Bafang motored hub drives. The few mid-drive ones in the budget category seem to be extremely underpowered, saving on cost.
I really am only looking to spend up to $2,500 in the budget category so I really can't have very high expectations but the budget bikes all seem to be WAY overpriced for what you get. I feel these budget bikes are nowhere near worth the price tag. If I end up buying one of these budget bikes, am I just buying a piece of junk?
What have others experienced?
Thanks! Roger the inutility of fat tire bikes. They drag more than 55 psi tire bikes, making unpowered ride very difficult. Note the 30 or 25 psi limit on the tires. Waste of watthours if you do not ride in powder snow or on a beach with fluffy sand. Some posters have complained of poor streering of fat tire bikes.
Suspect the spokes & cables of <$ e-bikes to be of same quality of the three $200 MTB's I owned (used). Spokes and cables stretch, needing frequent adjustments. I had no idea how trouble free derailleurs & hand brakes could be until I bought my yuba, which does not need adjustments of those parts. One yuba brake caliper requires mile adjustment for wear of pad, but not the cables. Pacific brand MTB cranks were plastic, which wore out in miles, and could not be removed. A Pacific rear axle came unscrewed and dropped the balls on the road. It had to be pushed home. The diamondback MTB rear axle broke in two under my elephantine 180 lb body.
I have owned some tiny brand hub motors. The gears of one wore out at ~ miles, which is not amazing but okay for $300. Never lost a bearing but had to tighten screws on the end about annually. Blue loktite did not help. Bargain controller in that $300 kit had no heat connection between the bar the mosfets were mounted on and the ribbed aluminum case. I corrected that and got about miles out of it.
I fInd it odd the vast array of junk in your market. In my metroplex we have one shop with a dozen Pedego (good reputation), and another shop with 6 Giant ebikes, also reputable. That is all. Maybe two used ebikes a month on craigslist. I am starting to see one fat tire 20" wheel ebike a week on the street, usually ridden by a young guy without a helmet wearing black or dark grey. These guys do not pedal, ride on the wrong side of the road, and do not stop for signs or traffic lights. I second the recommendation to buy from a shop that will support the bike. Recently I bought a RadExpand 5, I had a local ebike dealer assemble the bike because they will service it and do any warranty work needed, if anything goes wrong I can just fold it to transport it in a car to the shop. Some brands can be ordered through mobile vans like Velofix that come to your house. If you choose to buy direct check the reputation of the brand for customer service, I nearly bought a Radio Flyer folding model because I had a good experience with their customer service in Chicago answering questions I had.

$2,500 is enough budget to get you any type of non-fat tire ebike. For example Class 1 ebikes like the Gazelle Medeo T9 or Tern Quick Haul D8, or a fitness bike like a Velotric T1 or Cannondale Treadwell, do come with lower powered 36v 250w mid or hub drive motors at the budget/entry level. If you seek more power for your money go with a bike with a 48v/52v battery and 500w or 750w rated hub motor for example a Class 2 like the Pedego Avenue, or a Class 3 commuter like the Aventon Level.2, etc. Check the reviews on here and on other test sites like Electric Bike Report for component specifications.

1) When it comes to the budget (no-name) China ebikes ($1,000 to $3,000) at the warehouses here where I live, why are 90% of them all fat-tire bikes? I am guessing becuase they look cool and aggressive. Fat tire bikes appeal to the ego, more than to the practicality of riding. They get lots of compliments from men and little kids. The Fat Tires are not of much value over a 2.8" or 3" tire. In order to utilize thier potential, you need to run at 5-7psi. Then you are going to have problems with pinch flats unless you are running tubeless. The cheap brands do not come with tubeles rims or tires. If running at 5-7psi on the pavement you will have lots of drag which depletes the battery. If you are riding mostly on pavement, Fat Tires are a waste. They are a must for the sand, not much else. Fat tire bikes look cool. I own a Fat Tire (4") mid-drive, and a 3" tire mid drive mtb.

Brands like Troxus, Mokwheel, Magicycle, Magnum, etc. I don't see the need for fat-tire unless you are riding on sand at the beach or on snow-covered trails/roads. One of the sales people actually told me they are fat-tire to handle the weight of the bike. I can't buy a bike from a shop where I'm told that. That is ridiculous. Yes that is absurd.
2) Are people (businesses) just ordering from China and white-labeling them here in the states? Yup, pretty much sums it up.

3) Are the budget bikes worth it or am I going to regret buying one down the road? I own a "budget" bike. The Aventon Level, since . I paid $1,400. I am very pleased with the value proposition. Shengyi rear IG Hub, Magura Hydraulic Brakes, Suntour front (spring) shock, Altus transmission. Practically zero maintenance except for brake pads. For a paved surface bike it has been excellent. I enjoyed riding so much more than I anticipated, that I quickly upgraded to a carbon fiber, mid-drive (Bafang Ultra) emtb with rear suspension, and a Rohloff IHG ($6,500). So did I waste my money on a "budget bike"? Nope, I still have it for guests to ride, and I never would have gotten into the hobby so enthusiastically without buyng my first budget bike.
They all seem to have the rock-bottom level components like Shimano Tourney or Altus transmissions (4+ years on my Aventon Altus Trans) and either cheap mechanical or very entry-level hydraulic brakes (Tektro or white-labeled ones from China)Some have white-labeled motors or Bafang (Bafang is excellent, I've got 3 Bafang mid-drives) motored hub drives. The few mid-drive ones in the budget category seem to be extremely underpowered, saving on cost. My Bafangs are all "rated" at 1,500+ watts, but Manuf Power ratings are marketing BS. Read here: https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html
I really am only looking to spend up to $2,500 in the budget category so I really can't have very high expectations but the budget bikes all seem to be WAY overpriced for what you get. I feel these budget bikes are nowhere near worth the price tag. If I end up buying one of these budget bikes, am I just buying a piece of junk?
What have others experienced? If you are concerend that you will lose out, buying a budget bike, or piece of junk, I suggest you buy a used ebike that can be serviced by your local dealer. There are plenty of them for sale. Stick with a brand that can be service locally. Aventon has 1,000+ service partners. Check thier service map.
Thanks!

Good luck!
~Tom IMO stay away from the super-low-budget ebikes with obscure brand names. Especially all the Amazon wonders. But there are some bargains to be had. Lectric, for example, buys in huge quantities and keeps their prices low, yet from what I've read they have good CS after the sale. My Ride1Up LMT'D was about $ when I bought it and it is pretty good quality (not just my opinion, the local LBS remarked about this); I've emailed for a bit of help and was assisted by people in my own country. So there are some that have no local presence but are still good candidates. Then you have the brands which can be bought at a LBS, and they tend to be good also, although their prices reflect the overhead and middlemen which provide you with that nice local presence.

It's hard to go wrong with a Gazelle, or a Trek (or Electra), or a Giant (or Momentum). As for Specialized, well, I have no personal experience but let's just say I've seen some comments from unhappy owners and some from very happy owners (one in particular that we suspect sleeps with his Specialized).

I went from a 4 in tire bike to a 2.3 in tire and must say it near jared my bones loose. I used to ride off road, sand pit and wherever I felt like going and my fat tire would take me.

No reason you cannot reduce pressure on a 2.3" tire to ride off-road slowly, if your weight is under 260 lb. For 23 mph back on road, you then can boost the pressure back to 55 psi limit. Especially when you load up the back with groceries, yard chemicals, or lawnmower fuel. Keep tires at pressure required to not bang the rim on potholes. Forced off a 6" road edge by ****ole drivers, I make sure the angle is >40 deg and I stand up.
My reliable yuba was $ unpowered. In addition to A-list trek, giant, specialized, gazelle, there are kona, cannondale, R&M, yamaha. Blix's problem post count is 1. It has a geared hub motor unsuited to climbing long steep grades like Sierra & Rocky mountains. Also with a geared hub Pedego has a short known problems list although the geared hub motor . Check the count of known problems in the brand forums below, the divide by market share (which is unknown).